Speaking Ill of the Dead ***UPDATED***

Posted by: Nathan
in Ingrid, Linked Articles, ODM Responses, ODM Writers
24
Jul

It appears that the article in question has magically disappeared.  I wonder why…

I am going to try really hard to not assail any individual at Slice, but the article written today about the late Tammy Faye Messner has been bugging me all day. It’s something I have not been able to shake. It is one thing to write mean spirited words about men and women who can defend themselves, it is another thing to speak ill of the dead. It is even more cruel when the mean spirited words are only half true.

Ingrid posted the following quote from an interview with Tammy Faye

Larry King to Tammy Faye Messner: “What do you want to be remembered for?”

Tammy Faye: “My eyelashes.”

She continued to talk about what you are going to be know for, basically explaining that Tammy Faye is known for the wrong reasons. The article failed to address Messner’s continued statement, as pointed out by many comments on the article. One commenter wrote:

I thought that she was just joking, She said my eyelashes, of course (because she like you said wore heavy make-up and was always being made fun of) then laughed and said no, she wanted to be remembered for her faith in Jesus….that’s how I remembered it.

To Ingrid’s defense, the rest of the statement was not published in the news article provided. But I think this illustrates a huge problem with watchdoggie blogs. Taking one line, or a few lines out of the whole piece can dramatically change the meaning of it all. It literally enables people to completely re-write the life of a person and twist it into being overly shallow and meaningless.

The Slice writer continued to explain that Messner was in the wrong because homosexuals were mourning her death. She was remembered for her compassion and love for those in a gay lifestyle. And obviously because gay people love her, she had to have been wishy-washy in her doctrine. As Ingrid put it

I am sorry for Tammy Faye. I do not understand how someone who at one time was presented the Gospel could reject its core message. Jesus said that narrow is the way, and few there be who find it.

It’s almost as if someone is not hated and mocked fro their faith, then they did something wrong. If non-believers love you and mourn your death, that shouldn’t be as sign that you are apostate or unorthodox. After Slice was called out for its hurtful and incorrect interpretation of Tammy Faye Messner’s life and death, the writer had this to say

While I’ve been attacked here at Slice for commenting on Mrs. Messner’s remarks on Larry King, I’d like to point out that she was the one who sought the publicity, as she did all her life. When asked if she had any regrets, she said she couldn’t waste her brain on that kind of stuff… Some reader just told me that I should have had compassion on her and not posted this because she was grimacing in pain on Larry King. Why was she on Larry King? Because she asked to be on. One last go at the media.

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12 Comments(+Add)

1   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 24th, 2007 at 1:15 am

Interestingly,

“I am sorry for Tammy Faye. I do not understand how someone who at one time was presented the Gospel could reject its core message. Jesus said that narrow is the way, and few there be who find it.”

has a very Arminian slant to it… Tammy once not only was presented the Gospel… but professed her Faith in Christ and proclaimed the Gospel.

Now I am no fan, but Ingrid seems to wading into semi-palegain waters if you ask me.

How can she be so certain that Tammy Faye was not saved and denied the Gospel…

To me Tammy had an incredible sense of humor, and as I stated I am not a fan, yet cannot deny her faith was real… I mean even Larry King who was a Jew saw this and Ingrid denies it…

It seems Ingrid preaches against works on one side of her mouth and judges people by works out the other… I think though in the end, Tammy will see more God born fruit than Ingrid thinks.

Be Blessed,
iggy

2   Tim Reed    http://churchvoices.com
July 24th, 2007 at 5:49 am

Anyone else find the irony in a radio host with a blog complaining that Tammy Faye Messner was a media hound? Especially considering how much cross-promotion there is on that same blog for media appearances and columns.

3   Joe    http://joemartino.name
July 24th, 2007 at 7:58 am

Ok, Have you read Ingrid’s comments in the comment section.
First you have this,

Ingrid Says:

Hi readers,
I’m aware that Tammy Faye meant that as a joke, but what a time to joke!

Then my favorite

#
Ingrid Says:

While I’ve been attacked here at Slice for commenting on Mrs. Messner’s remarks on Larry King, I’d like to point out that she was the one who sought the publicity, as she did all her life. When asked if she had any regrets, she said she couldn’t waste her brain on that kind of stuff. We can hope that she regretted the bilking of thousands of elderly viewers of PTL out of their savings with their condo scheme that ripped off millions of dollars because of her greed and that of Jim Bakker. Her eyelashes comment and its flippancy simply underscored the flippancy with which she treated a lot of things in life.

Is she serious?

4   Sandy    
July 24th, 2007 at 9:42 am

I really thought it was one of the most tasteless, and dare we say, cruel things that has been posted. More than anything else, I think it really showed the motivation and heart of Ingrid and others SOL. Maybe this will cause people to read future post more judiciously.

The fact that Ingrid had numerous people showing her where they thought she was wrong, and there was no repentence or apology, really speaks volumes. Isn’t that what she day in and day out urges those she dissagrees with to do? Admit they are wrong and publicly acknowledge it? Come on, the hypocrisy is more than hip deep now.

5   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 24th, 2007 at 9:47 am

Sandy,

I do think Tammy did repent over the “bilking” so the issue is that of forgiveness. Our we willing to forgive Tammy?

It seems she was able to walk in the forgiveness of Jesus and in that I think some my find arrogant, but i see as confidence in our Great God at His Word.

be Blessed,
iggy

6   Sandy    
July 24th, 2007 at 12:11 pm

Iggy~
Sorry, the point I was trying to make didn’t come across. I was fighting for control of the computer from small children! I alweays thought Tammy Faye, more than her husband, really showed the heart of Christ. I wonder how Ingrid would do if her husband had the public affair and downfall that Tammy was forced to endure. Would any of survive as well as she seemed to have?

What I was trying to say, is that the focus of SOL seems to be “You are wrong. We are going to Matthew 18 you into submission with us, and you better come across with very public pentence or we will brand you heretical.”

So, in the irony of it all, Ingrid is very publically scolded by numerous christian who point our her error, her taking the phrase out of context and basically attacking a woman who was literally hours from death.

Instead of saying, “You know, I was wrong. I missed the second part of the eyelash thing, and I see that I really was harsh to this woman. I still have questions about her theology, but this was insensitive to her, her family, and the body of Christ” we get, “I’ve have been attacked. You guys need to stop it because I am justified because she had sinnded in the past, etc.”

On Tammy Faye, she was a hero to the gay community, and there is a documentary that ran on the Logo channel some time back. She was talking about how she was approached by a local minister as to why she didn’t come to church any more. And she said, “Well, I’m divorced. I can’t come to church any more.” I have to say I just about weaped. Obviously, when the events of her life, some out of her control, fell in on her, she was abondoned by her church. She was truly shocked that a pastor was inviting her to return to church. It was interesting, too, because she addressed her ‘fame’ with the gay community. She said in no uncertain terms that homosexuality was against her belief system, and that is was a sin. However, she said something to the effect that when she looked into the eyes of the gay men she knew, she saw a lot of pain and rejection, and she knew how that felt, and that Jesus would not turn his back on such as these.

It really gave me more respect for the woman, and makes me think her sincerity to Jesus was real. God does look on the heart, you know. :)

7   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 24th, 2007 at 12:22 pm

Sandy,

I understood what you were saying and i think it was that my response was not as clear.

I agree that it seems Ingrid has one set of standards for herself and another for anyone she disagrees with.

i think the point of irony as someone stated that she criticised Tammy for being a publicity hound… pot calleth kettle black! LOL!

Ingrid has shown she is consistently able to be as double minded as one can be… to say this thing is wrong and this think I like… and then say it is God that says this.

I think she is a bit confuse who God is…

Blessings,
iggy

8   Tim Reed    
July 24th, 2007 at 12:24 pm

Sandy,
That’s in incredible testimony of a life. Its a testimony to her graciousness and gentleness. Two traits I’ve come to admire more in the recent weeks and months.

9   Darren Sapp    http://www.vaporministries.blogspot.com/
July 24th, 2007 at 3:49 pm

What article? It appears to have disappeared.

10   Andrew    
July 25th, 2007 at 9:08 am

Yeah, the Slice post about Tammy Faye was very wrong, I believe. I watched that interview on Larry King and I saw other things about Tammy Faye’s life and I was truly moved by her willingness to profess Christ even at the end of her life in all that pain and suffering. She still confessed the name of Jesus Christ and praise the Lord for that. There was loving compassion for her children and for others, and she didn’t care one bit about herself in that interview even though she was just a frail skeleton. I think it was quite cruel and judgmental of Ingrid to post what she did. She does not know the heart of Tammy Faye, nor do we, but the fact that she confessed Christ speaks volumes about her. With what she has gone through, to have that unshakable faith seems to exude the power of the Spirit in her life. I hope and pray that she truly knew the Lord and that she is in heaven with him right now.

11   Darren Sapp    http://www.vaporministries.blogspot.com/
July 25th, 2007 at 10:00 am

Why did Ingrid delete it? If it was because she felt it was wrong, then where is the apology for Tammy Faye’s family? If there is another valid reason, fine, but if Ingrid feels she erred, then why not just say it and move on. The humble will be exalted.

12   Sandman    
July 25th, 2007 at 7:37 pm

That’s typical Ingrid. When she has erred and is having her feet held to the fire, hide all evidence of the crime (sorry Ingrid, this is the Internet–you can’t erase other people’s screen captures), pretend it never happened and talk about how she’s been attacked by apostates and that’s why she has such strict comment policies.

I’ve listened to her father, Vic, do the same thing on Crosstalk (accuse, oops!, don’t acknowledge error, find something else to attack), so I have an idea of where she gets that tactic.

Vic has had to deal with cancer as well, and I’d hope not to see anyone doing a happy dance over that. One would think Ingrid would have been a little more sensitive toward TFM instead of seeing just how close she could get to front of the “let’s kick a dying woman” line.

One Trackback/Ping

  1. CRN.Info and Analysis » Busy Day for Those in The ODM Ministry    Jul 24 2007 / 8pm:

    [...] Knowing that Chris L doesn’t like my fighten’ fundie label, I’ve coined a new phrase called ODM, which stands for Online Discernment Ministries. You can read the value of ODM’s in my own life here. Men and women let me tell you this has been a busy day for these purveyors of news they call discernment. One site deleted a post that at best was in poor taste and at its worst was a blatant twisting of the facts to suit one’s own purposes. Having being called out by many in the usual “Amen” corner, a comment was posted stating that the author had been attacked there in the comment section even though no attacks were apparent to this reader. Now, mysteriously and without explanation, the post is missing. Who knows why? It does bring up credibility issues though with the site. We all make mistakes, I make many, but if we can just pull a post down where is the accountability so many ODM’s are screaming about for Godly men like Bill Hybles, Dan Kimball, Rick Warren, or Erwin McManus. It kind of reminds me of my 4 year old daughter who one time said something she should not have said. When I asked her about it, she looked at me and said, “I’m just joking.” If you would like more information about the now missing article you can read about it here. Speaking of jokes and credibility, I assume the author of this ODM post was kidding when he put this missive up. [...]

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