From Tim Challies via his interview by iMonk:
Discernment cannot be understood as a practice that stands on its own. Neither is it something we do for its own sake—we are not discerning for the sake of discernment but rather for the sake of purity in doctrine and in practice. A person who wishes to be discerning must also be willing to take into account the Bible’s other teachings about loving one another, about speaking the truth in love, and so on. Many of these “discernment ministries” and “discernment blogs” seem to understand the importance of separating truth from error, even while falling into error in their responses. The Bible does not account for a lone wolf Christian making it his business to critique every author or teacher or ministry who happens to stumble into his crosshairs. In the book I suggest that the local church is the best and most natural context for the practice of discernment and I’ll stand by that!
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I agree. I bought his book. I do not know any “lone wolf” christians in the area of discernment.
I know many who are off drawing people after themselves and their particular ministry whatever that may be.
Acts 20:
24But I do not account my life of any value nor as precious to myself, if only I may finish my course and the ministry that I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God. 25And now, behold, I know that none of you among whom I have gone about proclaiming the kingdom will see my face again. 26Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all of you, 27for I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God. 28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. 29I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31Therefore be alert, remembering that for three years I did not cease night or day to admonish everyone with tears. 32And now I commend you to God and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified. 33 I coveted no one’s silver or gold or apparel. 34 You yourselves know that these hands ministered to my necessities and to those who were with me. 35In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”
Matthew 7:
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. 18A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
2 Peter 2:
1But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
The criteria of discerning false teachers/prophets/apostles is : they are in it for their own fame, for monetary gain,they do not teach or perform the will/word of God.
They are foreordained to be what they are.]
This may be presented without comment, but it is in all probability taken out of context.
Wow, we agree…
We are still good… I see this in Ken and Ingrid… so we agree in the criteria and the things these people are into… not to mention how they do things… like lie to protect truth and believe that though being mere men, they can protect the Almighty God.
Do you really think that God has just foreordained some to damnation? I think that you need go re-read your denom’s bylaws again… and the bible… as I see that God has predestined that all may be saved by the eternal plan of God… though not all will accept it. But to state that God chose some for damnation… seems more Islam and not Christian at all.
As in the case that we stated about most the things Ken and others write about… though I doubt true here.
iggy
You’re right of course. Putting it in context would have required the inclusion of the question that prompted this response, and the tone would have been much harsher. Shame on me (and Tim) for trying to be a bit nicer about it.
Why don’t we just lay it out there and give the context…
I have not issue with this guy who has his book foreword written by John MacArthur answer a question that may sting some of his own (C)amp.
The following statement caught my “reformed/Calvinist thinking eye: “I think that you need go re-read your denom’s bylaws again…and the bible” Why is it assumed that what is needed is a “re-reading” and that said “re-reading” WILL change one’s mind.
In response to “Do you really think that God has just foreordained some to damnation?”:
1) “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” Rom 3:23.
2) We are all BORN deserving death/damnation.
3) Those who are not saved receive no more than they already deserve.
It’s just a different way of looking at or wording the same situation.
We now return you to our regularly scheduled thread…
Chris P and Keith are really making sense to me!
This line is published without comment
Well, I’m half-afraid to respond, because I might be missing the point, but I’ll venture a guess. It appears to me that this statement is not taken out of context. Question asked; question answered. It’s that simple. I hope the author of this response means what he says.
Since it is in context, it appears to me (I am discerning here which I know is risky) that this statement is actually quite well spoken. It makes the point that I have been making elsewhere that the LOCAL Church is the best, if not only, place where such discernment should be taking place. Thus the onus is on those ‘lone-wolf’ ‘ministries’ to justify their existence biblically (which I don’t think they can do) and to validate their ‘ministry’ as beneficial to the Church.
As it is, in my opinion, they are doing more harm than good, dividing the body not uniting it, and not really holding themselves accountable to anyone but themselves and their own preconceived ideas of theological orthodoxy–as if they are the only ones who ‘get it’ or ‘have it’. Nor, most times do they speak the truth in love; their only ambition is to condemn all that does not conform to their ideas of purity and orthodoxy. It’s what I call the ‘ungrace’ Gospel.
If the author of the quote means what he said, I applaud him for being brave enough to make it. This was the best question the iMonk asked:
“It appears to some of us- myself included- that evangelicalism has an informal “magisterial†of preachers and ministers that function in the present as authoritative arbiters of discernment.
“How does the citing of well known pastors and teachers function in the discipline of discernment, particularly in relation to well known ministers who are not the elders or pastors or an individual Christian’s church. (Example: How far does “Pastor Piper says,†for example, extend into the discernment of truth for the larger church?)”
Right! Just how far does said authority carry? Anyhow, I hope the author of the answers to these questions is sincere. I hope more people read his comments and take them to heart. I hope he actually believes them himself.
jerry